Curse

whispering · Dec 08, 2005, 03:49 PM // 15:49

LESS MONSTERS BUT HARDER
So far i like the game a lot but there's a few things that's still bugging me. Adventuring in the world is sooooooo boring becose the number of monsters around. There are just WAY TOO MANY!.. Going from one point of the map to another doesnt take too long but you usually don't get to walk very far until next group of monsters jump on you. Usually fairly simple fights but very annoying and repetative. I would like LESS monsters but longer fights. I don't mind hammering or tossing spells a bit longer in a fight cuz usually when grouping i just have time go throw a few punches or land one of my spells until one of the foes is down... The only time things get rough is when too many monsters come at the same time.
*Casting a 18 sec dmg over time spell on the called target is quite useless since he wont stand more than a few seconds anyways even in the harder parts of the world. The point is youu dont get much out of the duration of the spells as you put more points in to it.

A way to fix this is to give all monsters and players More Health. a LOT more, and/or natural ways to avoid, absorb or deflect incoming damage both for the monsters and the players.

The warriors shield is never really used, more than a "stat" that lowers the damage taken. It would be cool if an animation and a chance to block all incoming damage using a should would be great. Since he's heavily armored more Melee damage should naturally be absorbed.

Less armored characters would then naturally be lighter and faster and have natural ways of totally avoiding the damage. Not just by using skills and stances but naturally to make fights longer and harder. This goes for monsters as well. I dont mind swinging the sword a bit extra on 1 foe, than endlessly change target and just swing 2-3 times the few seconds slected target standing.

Since targeting and navigating in the world can be tricky at times, and sometiems you get stuck this wont be a bad idea after all. You already got too many things to control and watch. So many times i found myself stuck on something getting jumped on by several monsters. Trying to move out of there and then using skills even get nimble fingers comfused. and accedently hitting wrong buttons leading to certain death just becouse of the confusion.

...

Zhou Feng · Dec 08, 2005, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by whispering

LESS MONSTERS BUT HARDER
So far i like the game a lot but there's a few things that's still bugging me. Adventuring in the world is sooooooo boring becose the number of monsters around. There are just WAY TOO MANY!.. Going from one point of the map to another doesnt take too long but you usually don't get to walk very far until next group of monsters jump on you. Usually fairly simple fights but very annoying and repetative. I would like LESS monsters but longer fights. I don't mind hammering or tossing spells a bit longer in a fight cuz usually when grouping i just have time go throw a few punches or land one of my spells until one of the foes is down... The only time things get rough is when too many monsters come at the same time.
*Casting a 18 sec dmg over time spell on the called target is quite useless since he wont stand more than a few seconds anyways even in the harder parts of the world. The point is youu dont get much out of the duration of the spells as you put more points in to it.

A way to fix this is to give all monsters and players More Health. a LOT more, and/or natural ways to avoid, absorb or deflect incoming damage both for the monsters and the players.

The warriors shield is never really used, more than a "stat" that lowers the damage taken. It would be cool if an animation and a chance to block all incoming damage using a should would be great. Since he's heavily armored more Melee damage should naturally be absorbed.

Less armored characters would then naturally be lighter and faster and have natural ways of totally avoiding the damage. Not just by using skills and stances but naturally to make fights longer and harder. This goes for monsters as well. I dont mind swinging the sword a bit extra on 1 foe, than endlessly change target and just swing 2-3 times the few seconds slected target standing.

Since targeting and navigating in the world can be tricky at times, and sometiems you get stuck this wont be a bad idea after all. You already got too many things to control and watch. So many times i found myself stuck on something getting jumped on by several monsters. Trying to move out of there and then using skills even get nimble fingers comfused. and accedently hitting wrong buttons leading to certain death just becouse of the confusion.

...

This has been spoken before. There is no "real" adventuring at the moment in PvEing as the maps are labyrinthine and choke full of monsters that you'll spend most of the time battling your way kind of like Dawn of the Dead movies... this is taken as frustrating by many players. However raising life or giving "natural skills" (ie thats what your skillbar represents) is not the way to go. On the other hand opening maps more, making monsters less but more challenging as well as diffrent mixed groups (ie Two warrior types one monk type, two archer types and one necro type) with a varied AI (ie go after a threat priority like if monk heals then he aggros monsters attention but if mesmer is eating them then mesmer aggroes his attention) would make PvE a whole lot more interesting.

Shiels IS used in a mediocre skill called Shield Stance. The thing is everything that is appliable to PvE skillwise also affects PvP which is why more health and "natural skills" (IE those that are not part of a skill bar) will not be implemented. However giving monsters some of the skills that may allow survival AND also allowing monsters to be dual profession (IE necro/monk) will solve this problem rather quickly. I want Anet to be creative if they want a place choke full of monsters do so in only select places not everywhere please.

whispering · Dec 08, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

QUOTE=Zhou Feng]

The thing is everything that is appliable to PvE skillwise also affects PvP which is why more health and "natural skills" (IE those that are not part of a skill bar) will not be implemented. [/QUOTE]

i'm aware of that. Although i havn't played PvP much i'm well aware that people clumping together on one target there gives him/her about 3 seconds to live at many times. That's a problem for sure.

People complained about improvement on the monster's AI after noticing that Mark of Pain was too powerful in PvE when monsters clumped together. It's a good improvemet to make the flee a bit after getting hit by that damage and then run back. I still like the spell becouse it works as crowd control in some situations and still dealing a fair ammount of damage. On the other hand it's still as powerful in PvP if people are not smart enough to move.... Anyways ... what i'm trying to say is that there should be more ways keep alive in any situation preferably when monsters or other players all go on the same target.

Of course, changing this will benefit soloing builds but i dont see anything wrong with soloing, I enjoy it and don't do it for profit. I like to go alone in my on pace exploring the landscapes. Even if i'm not using an UBER solo build i would like the option to do this.. Therefor less monsters but harder. It's a beutiful game but there are so many places i haven't even seen becouse it's too annoying tearing through monsters even at lower level places.

The main concept of this game is to reward skill rather than time spent. Mostly i dont even get to use my skills. If a fight when grouped lasted longer then -> YES i would have time to use my skills and learn to use them wisely.

If i was soloing and got several monsters around me i SHOULD have skills or attributes powerful enough to survive that situation too, becuz that's what usually happens in PvP too.

Then again.. people would complain about economy. People farming etc. A good way to fix this is that you get a drop from each 6th or 8th monster even if you are with henchies or other party members or soloing. People shouldn't do it for the profit, but to practice their skills preparing for PvP or just exploring the landscape.

Lasting longer alone or in group agains harder but fewer monsters in PvE would give you a chance to learn and use and choose your skills wisely. both for PvE and PvP

dawnrain · Dec 08, 2005, 05:52 PM // 17:52

For clarity, do you mean fewer ENCOUNTERS (groups) while in an explorable area (but the ENCOUNTERS are more difficult) or do you mean fewer MOBS within an encounter (but the individual MOBS are more difficult)?

I agree with the former, but disagree with the latter.

I don't think globally increasing hp just to make encounters last longer will make them more difficult. I think making the mobs "smarter" and more specialized would do more to making the encounters more difficult and ultimately more fun.

Jenosavel · Dec 08, 2005, 06:16 PM // 18:16

I'm with downrain on this one.

I would absolutely love to see the numbers on many maps thinned, but the AI of the monstes there improved so that they are a challenge. I have no problems surviving the knee-deep mobs out there, but you certainly don't get to enjoy the scenery when you step outside of town. I think this is the main reason I enjoyed Pre-searing so very much. Back then you could really explore. You could wander the map in wide-eyed wonder, spy an enemy from afar and decide how to proceed. Some enemies were aggressive, others weren't. That variety and freedom was exhilarating, unlike the repetetive and predicatble post-sear enemies.

I would absolutely adore it if this game could do three things:
1) improve the AI
2) give some variety to the AI (different types of enemies respond in different ways, some are more aggressive, some like to target casters first while others like the taste of warrior steel)
3) either thin out the enemy numbers or make enemies that are pitifully lower level than you not be aggressive towards you. If I were that Hulking Stone Elemental, I would definitely not be chasing that level 20 party around.

Sol_Vie · Dec 08, 2005, 06:21 PM // 18:21

I can't remember who said it or where, but I remember someone saying something along the lines of us needing bosses that people actively avoid because they're so hard... I totally agree with that. I think that's what we need primarily when it comes to enemies. I'd also like to see more large scale PvE battles, like the battle you see from inside Ascalon in Pre.

Mordakai · Dec 08, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenosavel

I would absolutely adore it if this game could do three things:
1) improve the AI
2) give some variety to the AI (different types of enemies respond in different ways, some are more aggressive, some like to target casters first while others like the taste of warrior steel)
3) either thin out the enemy numbers or make enemies that are pitifully lower level than you not be aggressive towards you. If I were that Hulking Stone Elemental, I would definitely not be chasing that level 20 party around.

/signed to this

Guardian of the Light · Dec 08, 2005, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

2) give some variety to the AI (different types of enemies respond in different ways, some are more aggressive, some like to target casters first while others like the taste of warrior steel)

That sort of already exists ....hmmm lets compare the tengu and the mountain trolls

. But they shoudl improve apon this.

jesh · Dec 09, 2005, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

/signed to this

*signs the signature thingy*

I wish ANet would just ONCE open one of these threads and say something like, "Hey, we're doing just this! We're getting rid of the lame mazes and the repetitive missions!"

I can wish, can't I? ...

whispering · Dec 09, 2005, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawnrain

For clarity, do you mean fewer ENCOUNTERS (groups) while in an explorable area (but the ENCOUNTERS are more difficult) or do you mean fewer MOBS within an encounter (but the individual MOBS are more difficult)?

I agree with the former, but disagree with the latter.

I don't think globally increasing hp just to make encounters last longer will make them more difficult. I think making the mobs "smarter" and more specialized would do more to making the encounters more difficult and ultimately more fun.

Yes i mean less Encounters, I dont mind them coming a few at a time, but these groups of monsters should be more spread out and more space between, maybe a bit of strategic placement, harder monsters guarding some passagegeways (since the map is a maze as it is) giving you the optin to fight fewer fights but harder or take a detour and maybe encounter more monsters but not so hard to kill... something like that...